This interview was originally conducted between Adam Girard and Jessamyn West on December 30, 2009. This post is part 4 of 5 that comprise the complete interview.
Jessamyn: Well I was just going to say, for example, the other project that we used, which is downloadable audio books; our task was to find a downloadable audio book vendor. Basically, there are two and they’re both horrible. And we picked the one that was less horrible, and they’re still horrible. Every time I have to use the software I want to kill myself because, they’re just so bad. Yet, the people that were choosing did the best job they could with what was available. There isn’t a way to get a downloadable audio book product for a library that isn’t horrible because all of the choices are horrible. So, in a lot of cases people do the best they can. It’s not like I mean to point the finger, like “they’re bad at their jobs!” It’s just that, in many cases, we’re between a rock and a hard place where all the choices are bad. If you have patrons who want downloadable audio books, it’s kind of lame to tell them “I’m sorry, all the software is terrible so you can’t have it.”
Adam: Sure. One thing that I think libraries have been fairly good at, by necessity, because they’ve been forced to, is forming consortiums.
Jessamyn: Yeah
Adam: I wonder if you think that if larger consortiums were to band together and define needs from software, or even wants, and they said to all vendors, and any vendors that don’t yet exist, “this is what we need and when you make it we will buy it, and not before”. If they took a little bit more control and said “we actually have requirements”. Do you think that’s an approach that could be successful?
Jessamyn: I think it would help. I think we’ve seen some really interesting failures of that. With the WALDO Project, who basically directed LibLime to build what they wanted and LibLime did it except then they didn’t release the code. That’s bad, and it created a schism in the Koha community which is a bummer. Everybody has their opinions about why that happened and what the really bad part about it is.
Basically that was a consortium who took that approach, but then the vendor, in order to kowtow to the consortium, actually kind of broke the spirit, if not the law, of the open-source feature of Koha. I mean, its much more complicated than that, obviously, but in this case you did have a consortium, who was using their purchasing power. Yet, according to LibLime, that depends who you believe, the consortium then didn’t want to release all that code back into the community and just give it away for free. So, in this case you have a consortium who was really encouraging innovation, but at the same time, not sharing it back out. So, good news for WALDO, kind of crappy news for everyone, else except maybe LibLime.
Then you see other libraries, like I think it was Queens Borough who’s suing SirsiDynix because they made a decision based on a whole bunch of factors, I can only sort of remember these stories, but basically they made a decision to purchase certain software, which once they had already signed the contract, they realized wasn’t going to be sustained and supported the way they thought it would. So, now they have to sue SirsiDynix for a whole bunch of money. SirsiDynix, of course, who had Stephen Abram, who notoriously came out with a kind of weird open-source white paper that said of all sorts of sketchy things about open source, and a lot of people called him to task for it, and so he left SirsiDynix a months later to go work for—who’s he working for?—Gale.
So, I kind of feel that that’s a true scenario and I’m curious if we’re actually going to see that happening moving forward. One of the things about consortia is, I was a lot more kind of —blar, about consortia until I saw some of the really innovate, wonderful things that they’ve been doing. I’ve seen more and more as consortiums doing things that I think are innovative. I think they’re also concerned with the training, the tech-novice issue. I mean, they have to deal with a lot of training and a lot of handholding, you know, jumping ship from a known, established vendor is risky for them. I think, open-source communities aren’t usually motivated by money, per say. So, I think what winds up happening is, you have consortia but what they really wind up having to do is a lot of in-house development and spend their money that way.
Michigan Library Consortium did that, they brought in a whole bunch of libraries up on Evergreen, and it was very exciting and everyone was thrilled. It’s delightful, oh my god its wonderful. But they were kind of operating in a weird little vacuum, because they were actually small enough that they were dealing with teeny libraries, and so did not have a whole bunch of fear, uncertainty, and doubt that you would get if you were, Queens Borough, for example, who may not really have the option to move to open-source because, part of what they feel they need to have is a support contract, not an in-house team of programmers.
So I feel like the culture has to shift a little more so that the whole idea of an in-house team of programmers, to a consortium, can be a reality and then they can do more of the development themselves. So its not even ordering the vendors around, it’s becoming the vendors so that smaller libraries can benefit from the kind of strength of a larger consortium, in my dream world.
Adam: And possibly even developing and understanding of the fact that once you enter into that kind of structure you’re in a different economy.
Jessamyn: Right, yeah! Totally, totally different economy. For us at Tunbridge, saving a couple grand a year on not-Follett, ( or not buying something) is real money to our community. You know, a couple grand a year is 80 books. That really matters to a library with 8,000 volumes, whereas to a bigger library, that might matter differently, and it’s partly a different economy and partly a different risk assessment. I feel like Queens Borough, and I love their library so I don’t want to be like talkin’ smack about them, I feel like its been very useful for them to have someone to sue when they got screwed over with this contract and you couldn’t really do that in an open-source environment. People, I think, would argue, and probably rightly, that this wouldn’t happen in an open-source environment, but because they’re dealing with a lot of public money, being able to go after a company when things don’t work out, is useful for them.
I think that’s what a lot of larger consortiums think about. I liken it to filtering, that the whole thing with the Children’s Internet Protection Act and having to filter if you take federal money. The larger systems are the ones who can be like “keep your federal money, we don’t want to filter” but they’re also the ones who have the most exposure if there is a filtering-related issue that they have to answer to. So, it’s both the good news and the bad news that they have that kind of weight to throw around. The power that they have is also equal to the exposure that they get if something does go wrong, there’s a lot of eyeballs on them.
Adam: So to paraphrase, you’re speaking about the fact that bigger systems especially enjoy being able to depend on vendors to fix things when they break, so they don’t have to.
Jessamyn: Yeah, I don’t even know if its enjoy so much, but I feel like if something crashes and burns, being able to tell your vendor to go fix it and not having your entire system come to a grinding halt because all of your people have to be on hand to fix it, can be a good safety net. I mean I don’t even think a consortia are like “we’re so happy its not our responsibility” I just think that they’re like “we’re really happy that we have this risk managed in an efficient way.”
Adam: True, it’s insurance.
Jessamyn: Yeah, I feel like it’s an insurance. Whereas, if its all you, then if something really really goes badly, you’re totally on the hook for it. And, maybe you feel like you’re up to it. I feel like I’m up to it if something goes badly at my library, but I could understand if I had records for 100,000 people instead of 1,000 I might be less comfortable with that.
Adam: And although it’s clear that it’s not the best solution for every library or every library system, to those libraries who could approach doing things differently and handling that responsibility themselves, other than sort of putting your money where your mouth is by being involved with the projects that you are, what would you say to them to convince them to make the leap?
Jessamyn: Well, I mean, my feeling is that libraries are all about the local, right? The reason we don’t have some national library system that gives all the same books to all the same places is that we really are all about our local communities and our local people. I feel like having projects like this, around Vermont especially, we buy from farmer’s markets. I know where my milk comes from, all that stuff, and I feel like, that’s important. That’s a value that we have. Being able to take your money that you have, and around Vermont, we get that money funded locally too, you have to go to town meeting and ask for it.
Getting to spend it locally on local people keeps people employed in Vermont, which is a community good in addition to all of the social good that being a public library has. So, I feel that it’s not green, but it’s the kind of functional equivalent of green from a human resources perspective, keeping that money local, knowing what’s happening with it, the whole sharing aspect. Anytime you make a change, anytime we fix something in Koha, we can fix it for everybody that uses Koha in the entire world and that’s kind of cool. My tech guy, I have a tech guy that does the “techie techie” stuff that’s too high tech for me. He found a way to make the initial loading of records go more quickly. He told the Koha dev-list and they were like “oh great, we can roll that into the next, dot release” or whatever. So, he fixed something, which was just him doing his normal problem solving, he fixed it for everybody, that’s kind of awesome.
In the library world, where I feel like sharing is just what we do, and caring about the local is really what we do. Those two things together I think make it a genuine option for people. That it’s two things we really like to do, put together and most of the big hurdles have to do with, risk management and being careful and being cautious and being nervous, and I feel like as more libraries do these kind of thing successfully, the more it lays the ground work for other libraries that might be more trepidations or less well-skilled to be able to do it efficiently and with grace, I guess. You know, the first early adopters have a hard time, admittedly, but they’re also a little less risk averse so that’s okay for them.
Moving forward, I’m surprised, frankly, that my library in town managed to do this without a bunch of kicking and screaming and they totally did and I’m totally proud of them. I feel like they’re proud of themselves, too, which is good in tough economic times, when you’re asking people for money and you can be like “hey, look, we spent your money really smart on people in town and helped solve problems for other people”, that’s kind of neat.
Stay tuned for part 5! Please share your thoughts and comments.
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